Tulpa.info - tulpa-discussion

Raptoir 10/4/2022 3:31 PM

Yup

It might be hard to choose your current part of personality or identity when you're under stress or strong emotions.

3:33 PM

Unhealthy systems often rationalize that with 'X refuses to/can't front'

Sorry my discord is fucking up

1

Raptoir

You can definitely have both, just not at the same time

Actually I'm totally wrong here though. Tulpas are always separate and unified, it's only the degree that changes

1

can you have a lot of separation and a lot of unity, or are they opposites?

@HvllBlau - jump From my experience too you definitely can have both. It's good to be able to see you and your tulpa both as two people and one person.

1

Regina Faux

It might be hard to choose your current part of personality or identity when you're under stress or strong emotions.

ugh that... uhh that completely nullifies what i wrote.. raptoir was right, tulpas bad, rip

3:38 PM

not even joking

The only thing that's bad is inflexibility

3

3:39 PM

Identity has that downside inherently, but it obviously has the upside of allowing discrete conscious thought and rationality

3:39 PM

If it was all bad we wouldn't really be human :P

well tulpas creation require some brain wrapping so at the end flexibility should rise no matter what

3:40 PM

not natural tulpa creationn

Ideally yeah

3:44 PM

A lot of the time though, people just do the techniques without putting any effort into understanding them

3:45 PM

So they can work themselves into difficult situations. Usually not a big deal if they're in the community and get help, but if left unaddressed it can become really strongly habituated

I think the limits of separation between a host and tulpa are complicated. First, I think tulpas and hosts draw from similar hardware which limits the system's overall behavior. I like to think that the brain has a limited number of personalities it can actually have and that hardware limits how different your tulpa can be, regardless if they have a backstory or not. For example, I don't think it's a coincidence a lot of people in my system like birds or animals, or that we all tend to behave in particular ways. I think people pick up on these subtle behaviors and then struggle to tell me and my headmates apart, particularly myself from Gray. Second, I think some traits a system struggles with are learned traits due to the environment. If the host struggles with procrastination, it wouldn't surprise me to find the tulpa doing the same. Procrastination is a coping method and it's really easy for a tulpa to pick up pre-existing strategies. Only when a more effective coping strategy or in other words a resolution to the problem is achieved does the problem go away. Otherwise, an unchanging environment will lead to the same behavior from the entire system. Third, you also have cultural expectations that are pushed onto the system. It's generally expected of hosts to behave responsibly or possibly to act more casually online, and these cultural expectations are pushed onto the other headmates as well. Even here where there's more tolerance of separate expression, I still expect my headmates to treat others with bare minimum respect. As you may have observed, Blue has complained about me and Gray being overbearing before. I think this is a good thing, without this you can see systems with headmates who act out or cause trouble due to a lack of control for whatever reason. On the bright side, tulpas can take the time and effort to change their behaviors. Having the motive to do so is the first step to a new habit or behavior. (edited)

Hello mancers! In your experience, can one headmate experience an emotion while another headmate simultaneously experiences a conflicting emotion, or is one of those emotions "bullshit"/confabulation? (Following from a discussion I had with Raptoir in #lounge) (edited)

Hey that's a pretty big mischaracterization

Wait is it...?

you can definitely experience multiple or mixed emotions at the same time

2:30 AM

as you said, singlets do too

Then tbh I am clueless as to what you were talking about the entire time, lol

I'm talking about tulpas acting out an emotion that isn't experienced in shared consciousness

If theyre acting it out, isnt it experienced...??

2:33 AM

How else would you know they acted it out? lol

there's a difference between making a sad face and feeling like shit

2:37 AM

This might actually be a language thing like you said, now that we've talked about it some more. I use feeling to describe the experience/state of mind, while to me (at least in this context) emotion means more like the display or expression of that

Hmm I see

Unfastened Belts

If theyre acting it out, isnt it experienced...??

but also, this is an equally valid position to take. As I said earlier this whole position I'm taking relies on the idea that these things come one after the other and not just two expressions of the same thing (edited)

2:40 AM

which is a pretty spurious assumption

Raptoir

you can definitely experience multiple or mixed emotions at the same time

You did start explaining your thoughts about this in response to someone saying "one of my headmates felt differently about something than I did"

well specifically it was

there have been times when one of my girls felt differently about something than the rest of us

which implies there was a pretty clear status quo being opposed (a common sign of unconscious/confabulatory influence), and it came from someone who hasn't really grasped the idea of tulpas not having separate consciousnesses, so I feel it was a fair bet

2:47 AM

(no offense meant to the person)

There are many MANY instances of tulpas having unequal identification with feelings, probably the majority. I also think there's a clear difference between a tulpa embodying a conscious feeling and a tulpa being a vessel for some unconscious drama to make its way to consciousness, regardless of the theory behind it.

Fair enough, I think I get now

i was about to answer

4:08 AM

but uh nevermind

Full disclosure this is a thought borne of weed but hear me out here: I was thinking about how I often hear the phrase "I can feel feel his presence" in reference to God (I live in the US bible belt for context). And like, isn't prayer all about talking to God? Like plenty of religious folk will pray every night (or more) which seems very similar to the process of of forcing. Do some religious people actually have like, God tulpas? And that's what they mean when they say things like "I feel his presence" or "he showed me the answers"??

100 %

4:12 AM

Pretty common interpretation among tulpamancers

4:12 AM

Jesus tulpas etc

Fuckin mind blowing man

1

andromeda

Full disclosure this is a thought borne of weed but hear me out here: I was thinking about how I often hear the phrase "I can feel feel his presence" in reference to God (I live in the US bible belt for context). And like, isn't prayer all about talking to God? Like plenty of religious folk will pray every night (or more) which seems very similar to the process of of forcing. Do some religious people actually have like, God tulpas? And that's what they mean when they say things like "I feel his presence" or "he showed me the answers"??

yeah, heard of a story where a guy had a god tulpa

4:14 AM

it's definitely possible

andromeda

Full disclosure this is a thought borne of weed but hear me out here: I was thinking about how I often hear the phrase "I can feel feel his presence" in reference to God (I live in the US bible belt for context). And like, isn't prayer all about talking to God? Like plenty of religious folk will pray every night (or more) which seems very similar to the process of of forcing. Do some religious people actually have like, God tulpas? And that's what they mean when they say things like "I feel his presence" or "he showed me the answers"??

I think most people here agree god is just a tulpa and not actually god

andromeda

Full disclosure this is a thought borne of weed but hear me out here: I was thinking about how I often hear the phrase "I can feel feel his presence" in reference to God (I live in the US bible belt for context). And like, isn't prayer all about talking to God? Like plenty of religious folk will pray every night (or more) which seems very similar to the process of of forcing. Do some religious people actually have like, God tulpas? And that's what they mean when they say things like "I feel his presence" or "he showed me the answers"??

\There have been written a whole book about it. https://www.npr.org/2012/03/26/149394987/when-god-talks-back-to-the-evangelical-community

'When God Talks Back' To The Evangelical Community

Anthropologist T.M. Luhrmann studies the personal relationships evangelicals develop with God. In her book When God Talks Back, she explains how relationships with God are often cemented through the power of prayer.

The author of this books is aware of tulpas https://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/15/opinion/luhrmann-conjuring-up-our-own-gods.html

By T. M. Luhrmann

Opinion | Conjuring Up Our Own Gods (Published 2013)

Knowing God intimately is hard, and maybe hard-wired, too.

Knowing about tulpas really can help understanding why people of religion are often pissed off so much with something even only suggesting that god is not real - for them its not the theoretical question but part of the real experience.. Its even worse, unlike tulpas, god existence at his nature is applying it can't be logically justified at the first place. So they need to just pray and stay devoted. Awesome people (edited)

I don't think majority of bigots have a tulpa-like God though.

Nono, its the ascended ones

Btw. in this interview with someone from Russian tulpa community the guy often refused to talk about religion as your law protects feelings of religious people... In my country it's the same in theory but people don't take it seriously and happily sing songs about pope being a pedophile and God being a dick. People in Russia are crazy serious about respecting religion seriously?

Nah it's very niche thing, first the law exists but i looked up statistic is very low of actually accusing someone in this(cases are like someone was catching pokemons in church lol) Second it's just one of few laws which purpose is to shut down any opposition and criticism to current authority - there is about 6 or 7 articles - for religion, for supporting terrorism, for extremism(this one is used most), for "nazism reabilitation". Their main purpose is to make an excuse for taking down any unwanted websites, accounts and so on. Censorship. And so you don't talk about this topics online - its unlikely but still can lead to problems. There is about 400 criminal cases for saying something online each year happening - thats not much, i guess???

1:22 PM

this is not tulpa discussion at all btw

1:23 PM

i wonder when we will come close to china levels of censorship

Regina Faux

Btw. in this interview with someone from Russian tulpa community the guy often refused to talk about religion as your law protects feelings of religious people... In my country it's the same in theory but people don't take it seriously and happily sing songs about pope being a pedophile and God being a dick. People in Russia are crazy serious about respecting religion seriously?

i lived in russia for a few years and i’ve spent way to much time on russian internet (before i learned english; my country’s internet community is quite obnoxious) and the thing is that law can be interpreted however authorities want. i’m pretty sure some youtuber once got a real prison sentence for playing pokemon go at church (he knew that it’s illegal but did it anyway but it doesn’t particularly matter if the law is ridiculous), so if someone wants to give you problems, “fuck the church” comment on one’s instagram page with a few dozen subscribers will be more than enough.

12:17 AM

on the other hand it’s mostly intimidation tactic

12:23 AM

like, i think most of them ending with either fine or prosecution just not bothering to continue with the case if accused asks for an expertise or whatever, so i’m pretty sure it’s mostly enforced to its full extent on public figures and maybe some activists to scare them and everyone else.

Speaking of hypnosis... I feel like we both know about hypnosis and don't know about hypnosis. We have heard a lot of conflicting opinions on what is or isn't hypnosis and we never bothered to do lots of research to figure out fact from fiction. There's a good chance that if our understanding is correct, tulpamancy is just a flavor of hypnosis. It requires concentration and suggestion but it's not as focus heavy as say meditation. Immersion might be hypnosis. I also think making symbol servitors is also probably hypnosis (edited)

1

A long kiss goodnight

Speaking of hypnosis... I feel like we both know about hypnosis and don't know about hypnosis. We have heard a lot of conflicting opinions on what is or isn't hypnosis and we never bothered to do lots of research to figure out fact from fiction. There's a good chance that if our understanding is correct, tulpamancy is just a flavor of hypnosis. It requires concentration and suggestion but it's not as focus heavy as say meditation. Immersion might be hypnosis. I also think making symbol servitors is also probably hypnosis (edited)

or hipnosis is just a flavor of tulpamancy in which you "modify" the host through suggestion... its really all the same!

I don't know if all tulpamancy is hypnosis, but not all hypnosis is tulpamancy. But yes, editing the host personality can also involve hypnosis

A long kiss goodnight

I don't know if all tulpamancy is hypnosis, but not all hypnosis is tulpamancy. But yes, editing the host personality can also involve hypnosis

words are very limiting

4:59 PM

you could say that the host is a tulpa (which is just true) and the act of modifying the host through hypnosis is just like the act of personality forcing for a tulpa. with such interpretation all hypnosis would be tulpamancy (edited)

5:02 PM

this is why words are limiting, suggestion play is just suggestion play, its sometimes useful to get bounds in the forms of words when talkin about it, but its absurd to try to reach conclussions through those words. (edited)

5:02 PM

any conclussion would just be part of the definition of the words you arbitrarily chose

5:06 PM

which is to say that words are just descriptive, and should not be used prescriptively

1

words are just a tool, as long as you agree on the terms and definition and the other person knows what you mean it doesn’t matter how elusive definitions are, it’s the only way we have to communicate ideas between each other

@Breloomancer Random question that popped into my head: Have you ever tried making your food invisible (with imposition) before eating it? If so, how did it taste? (edited)

it never occurred to me to try. with non food stuff though, i can still feel it like normal even if it can't see it

I was talking to Dawn and we were talking about tulpas and taste. The thought process was taste can be disrupted by lots of things and that reminded me of people finding how food looks can affect flavor. However, I don't think anyone has ever tried tasting invisible food and comparing that to normal food (edited)

Blind tasting would probably be the closest to it but since imposition can be wacky we'd figure asking someone who's decent at it would be smart

In case it was confusing, I'm not thinking about an imposed chicken that's invisible, I'm thinking of making a physical chicken look invisible

i imagine that, as long as i had seen it at some point, then it wouldn't change things much, but if i never got the chance to set my expectations in the first place then it would probably have more of an effect

if you don’t want looks of the food to distord the taste of the food you can just close your eyes

idk if imposing it out ouf your conscious sight will remove the potential subcoscious effects of the sight of the food anyway (edited)

11:32 AM

your brain is still recieving that information and you dont fully know whats it doing with it

A long kiss goodnight

@Breloomancer Random question that popped into my head: Have you ever tried making your food invisible (with imposition) before eating it? If so, how did it taste? (edited)

sometimes I taste the imaginary food my girls make in the wonderland, it's often a pale imitation of the real thing

6:15 PM

which is why they prefer to eat whatever I'm having when we're at a restaurant or whatever

6:16 PM

part of that though is probably my lack of immersion in the wonderland, I imagine it'd taste a bit more real if I was fully switched out or whatever

Wonderland food is okay, but I don't think it tastes like the real deal (edited)

Wonderland food is interesting and can be improved like with all imagination based phenomenon. We discovered you can absolutely fake alcoholic effects and other such stuff. Food is surprisingly a bit trickier

what's homo sapiens? it's the primate species to which modern humans belong what's a citizen? it's an inhabitant of a particular town or city what's a tulpa? it's a kind of a thoughtform

Ah, I would say "a tulpa is" Honestly I don't have much else to say here, I think I said everything I needed to say in #lounge . I simply disagree that using "it" is perfectly fine because I assume that tulpas are separate individuals by default and when I use "it" I assume it's dehumanizing. I don't think I can contribute anything else here, I'm sorry An (edited)

would it also be dehumanizing to say "it's an inhabitant of a particular town or city"?

I find the sentences awkwardly written or not native English. Like Ranger, I would write: Homo sapiens is.... A citizen is... A tulpa is...

7:00 PM

It seems rather simple to me to refer to a person, even a hypothetical person, with he/she/they pronouns and not it

7:01 PM

Even fictional characters are referred to with he/she/they pronouns

Aya

I find the sentences awkwardly written or not native English. Like Ranger, I would write: Homo sapiens is.... A citizen is... A tulpa is...

if someone asked you "what is a citicen?" would you repeat "a citicen is..." in any case, that is not the point, the point is that we can abstractly talk about human-like things using "it" and that does not necessarily mean its dehumanizing (edited)

That is not something I would do, and I would not like to be referred to by "it"

you are just not getting the point

Rather I do not understand the amount of stretching people will do to call tulpas "it"

now you are assuming malice in me

7:13 PM

"Its interesting to talk about the host! It is just a tulpa tho." do you get it if i use "it" to talk about the host? (edited)

7:16 PM

"identity is what makes us so different. It is incredible"

Aya

Rather I do not understand the amount of stretching people will do to call tulpas "it"

The discussion in #lounge was tedious and full of several people doing this, I'm not only referring to you. I think Nifty's personal tendency to call yourself and other individuals "it" in your head is unusual and best not extended to be a societal norm. I'm too agitated for this conversation.

7:21 PM

I've never seen anyone naturally refer to a host as "it"

Aya

The discussion in #lounge was tedious and full of several people doing this, I'm not only referring to you. I think Nifty's personal tendency to call yourself and other individuals "it" in your head is unusual and best not extended to be a societal norm. I'm too agitated for this conversation.

you are absolutely missinterpreting everything i said about katie and i being sometimes it in my head. i was talking about us thinking abstractly about what we are.

Aya

I've never seen anyone naturally refer to a host as "it"

because usually we do not talk about how to create an abstract entity called host, but we all know that the host is just a tulpa

Txoka

would it also be dehumanizing to say "it's an inhabitant of a particular town or city"?

I wouldn't say it's dehumanizing but it isn't natural either. Citizen is a character, it doesn't fit here.

we dont talk about the host nearly as much as about tulpas, because we create tulpas, and the guides are about how to create tulpas. (edited)

7:26 PM

thats why we dont usually use it to refer to the host